[PJUG Javamail] Consumer Based Web Development
Roger Bixby
javafreek at spasticmonkeys.com
Sat Jan 9 13:50:41 EST 2010
I've been developing a Seam application for the past few months and
really like it. It uses JSF/Facelets and, as mentioned previously,
supports REST-based urls. Unfortunately, to use Seam in a WAS
environment without a lot of headaches, you would need to upgrade to WAS 7.
James Perkins wrote:
> Great comments Ken thanks!
>
> Yes, the POST is going to be the biggest challenge. Having to think it
> terms of how a search engine indexes is really hurting my brain :-).
> I'm so used to just developing an application that has no need to
> care. We will have some kind of category type drill down which
> probably would require JSF links so that is my main concern.
>
> I'm not really to keen on creating static pages myself. It was the
> only other thought I had at this point. I'm still researching some so
> we'll see what happens.
>
> We can move to a Java EE 5 compliant server, but our client isn't on
> one currently. The company I work for is an IBM business partner so we
> use WebSphere Application Server. I know WAS 7.0 is Java EE 5
> compliant, but my boss didn't want to have to install it if we could
> get it running on WAS 6.1 since we already have a B2B app working on it.
>
> Again thanks for your expertise here.
>
> --
> James R. Perkins
> http://twitter.com/the_jamezp
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:55, Ken Paulsen <Ken.Paulsen at sun.com
> <mailto:Ken.Paulsen at sun.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> James Perkins wrote:
>> I'm getting ready to start the process of creating a consumer
>> based web site. This is really the first time I've had to create
>> a consumer based site. My original thought was I would
>> JSF/Facelets to create the site, but got to thinking this might
>> not work out so well as I need search engines to be able to index it.
> Depends on how you do your navigation. If you use POSTS for all
> your navigation (JSF makes this easy), then yes -- you'll likely
> have problems getting Google to index your site. However, JSF can
> behave like many other frameworks which don't provide "navigation
> handler" type features, and you can simply do:
>
> <a href="nextpage.jsf">Next Page</a>
>
> This will index fine with Google. Used this way it's no different
> (nor is it any more helpful) than many of the other UI frameworks.
>
> The difficult areas would be if you were expecting a generated
> table of links / buttons AND you want them indexed by google...
> then you'd want JSF to generate them and then you're back to the
> POST or URLs which contain view state which google won't handle
> well. You'd have to do extra work to make reproducible GET links
> in your table...
>
>> I've created web applications before, but they have always been
>> internal applications or applications that required a user to log
>> in and have an account.
>>
>> Doing some reading on SEO I'm seeing now that an entire JSF based
>> site might not be the best approach. The main problem being you
>> can't really bookmark JSF pages and links are mostly created
>> using JavaScript which the spiders can't crawl.
> I think the POST is mostly the issue. Although some
> implementations of links/buttons do use JS that may also cause
> problems. It's very easy to get around the JS-based components.
>
>> My question is have others run into this? Are people really still
>> creating static pages for stuff like this? Do any of you have
>> suggestions on where to begin or possibly a framework that would
>> work better than or with JSF? I've heard of PrettyFaces, but I
>> think you have to be on a Java EE 5 compliant server which to
>> start we will not be running.
> There is also RESTFaces and I think Seam has something and a
> couple others. I'm not sure which is best, or if any are worth
> using (I haven't had this requirement either). However, in the
> next version of JSF2 there will most likely be a standardized
> approach for REST URLs which should address most if not all of
> these issues.
>
>> I've also considered creating a library to generate static pages
>> based on templates. That way each time a new item or category is
>> entered into the database a new page is not having to manually
>> created and/or updated.
> Yes that could be done too... although it would probably be just
> as easy to design your site to only use GET URLs and create custom
> components and/or use PrettyFaces (if it helps) for ensuring all
> URLs are generated the way you want them. Generating pages gives
> you the overhead of manipulating files in your web tier and
> keeping it in-sync with your DB when content is removed or updated
> -- could be a pain.
>
> People's other suggestions might be worth exploring too... but
> there are a lot of benefits of JSF (this area is obviously not one
> of them). Also, you said you would not be using a Java EE 5
> server... does this mean JSF 2 is out of the question? I strongly
> recommend JSF 2 over previous versions of JSF. Is this b/c of
> size? Performance? Hardware is incompatible? Unless your
> hardware isn't able to run the software, I would look seriously at
> Java EE 6 -- it's just better. (If you hardware can't run modern
> software -- then you have bigger issues ;-) .)
>
> Anyway, good luck whatever you decide!
>
> Ken
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> --
>> James R. Perkins
>> http://twitter.com/the_jamezp
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