[PJUG Javamail] Is software engineering in the US dead?

[Nimret Sandhu]

> Leave it to me to change a discussion towards philosophy...

I think we stepped into that realm a while back .. most of this thread is 
peppered with opinions ( including mine) along with some facts methinks :)

On Wednesday 30 September 2009 11:16:10 am Howard Abrams wrote:
> As I've been following this thread, I'm struck by how much the word
> "quality" has been bantered around. We feel that we can justify our
> higher cost due our better quality, but this strikes me as not very
> tenable. I mean, how often do each of us shop at Walmart for our sound
> systems as opposed to Echo Audio or Bose, What about Winco vs New
> Seasons, or... you get the picture. As both business-people and
> consumers, we often choose cheaper Chinese goods instead of better
> quality versions from the U.S..

to adapt to your analogy, my point was just that if I am shopping at walmart ( 
on the rare occasion that I do) I usually keep in mind that I *am* shopping 
at Walmart and I have to be aware of certain things which I may not need to 
be if I am shopping at say, Sears. For example, I may find a good deal on 
something but I will be more skeptical about the quality, finish, etc .. even 
in some cases where it came from ( for those who care about that).

Conversely, I would be just as skeptical about other aspects .. beyond just 
cost when looking at offsite/offshoring/etc.

> My point isn't to start up any flames (esp with your Mac and PC
> zealots out there), but to get us thinking that maybe we, as a
> community of engineers, could come up with more tenable arguments to
> back up our "quality" rationale:
> Language, timezone, culture, and communication.
> Long-term support and maintenance
> Produce code closer to requirements quicker
> Better able to render business requirements into business code

I didn't intend to start a general purpose discussion about quality and how 
much better the code produced at place X vs place Y is.

My point with the original post was mainly just that cost savings are not the 
only reason that companies should consider offshoring/outsourcing/etc work 
because it may sound like a great idea .. until they start implementing it 
and run into some of the issues that I mentioned.

<opinion>
As an aside, I have generally really only seen this outsourcing trend with 
larger companies from my experience. I tend to work mostly with smaller 
companies and I really haven't seen too many of them moving in this 
direction. Some have tried it but I have yet to come across any place that 
managed to get it working quite right. As for quality, like I said earlier I 
found it to be the similar to here: mostly mediocre programmers with a few 
smarter ones here and there.
</opinon>

cheers,
-- 
Nimret Sandhu
http://www.nimret.com
http://www.nimsoft.biz