[PJUG Javamail] Is software engineering in the US dead?

[Nimret Sandhu]

On Tuesday 29 September 2009 10:18:25 am Umesh Gohil wrote:
> I am following this thread closely and thought to give my suggestion.  No
> Biased thought. My question is Why outsourcing take place? When you think
> from management point of view then they want to reduce cost of software and
> maximize profit.

( reducing cost of software && maximizing profit) != quality product 
necessarily

I think it's very short sighted to automatically assume that there are 
benefits in outsourcing just because it is cheaper .. esp ignoring the other 
costs in terms of distributing your workload/workforce globally: 
communication issues, increased management costs, liability issues, etc etc.

I am not saying that it can't be done .. but there are lots of challenges 
which are simply overlooked cuz people think it's cheaper.

> How management can achieve this ? All of us know Labor or Employee or
> Contractor in US is not cheap. If Mngt want to maximize the profit then
> they have to find alternative and alternative is nothing but out sourcing.
> All business has few advantage and disadvantage . Like that outsourcing
> also has advantage and disadvantage. 
> Software development   is faster,
> Production support is there 24/7 and so on. 

not necessarily. when I was working with offshore teams and any issue came up, 
we pretty much had to wait until the next day to resolve it. But if you're 
working with someone who has similar office hours or an overlap issues are 
resolved way more quickly. A simple thing which could be resolved in 10 mins 
can literally lead to a day's turnaround time!

again, 24/7 support and development sounds like a great idea but falls short 
in practice.

> If you calculate also then
> Avg Employee Cost $45 -  $50 per hour

seattle rates are higher than that for *quality* programmers.

> Offshore Cost $20 -- $25 per hour  [ $5 overhead cost ] Then also it is
> less than what avg employee cost.

factor in the overhead cost of:
- breaking up the work so that it can be worked in tandem
- keeping track of the work as it is being done
- acceptance testing
- following up on issues as they arise
- latency associated with working across timezones

and all of a sudden the hidden costs start showing up and the rate comparision 
isn't quite the whole picture.

btw, last I managed offshoring work 4-5 years ago, the rates were more like 4 
programmers in Bangalore for 1 american programmer. Out of the 4, 2 were 
junior level and only 1 of the two experienced programmers was really worth 
his salt imo.

> Some company are laying standard's for offshore team also like Sun
> Certification, Master degree , Few years of experience and so on. So that
> they get quality product.

well, don't even get me started on that. All I have to say is:
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jan2009/gb2009017_807784.htm

I used to work at a startup back in the 2003 timeframe who had a disagreement 
with their offshore partner but hadn't thought of that contingency. I believe 
their entire source repository was downloaded remotely if I remember 
correctly. I am not saying that this is the norm for offshoring, just 
pointing out that this company decided to be what they thought was cost 
effective but ended up paying for it by losing their crown jewels. They just 
hadn't thought things through.

A lot of companies/folks make the mistaken assumption that the business rules 
in foreign countries rae the same as the US. Heck, even France/Germany have 
different work/business rules than the US does .. nevermind the rest of the 
world.

All of these things have to be factored in when companies are thinking of 
off-shoring and to some extent even partering with other entities within the 
US.

> Software Engineering in US is not dead at all. But we need to learn new
> technology and be ready.

after having said my .02 about outsourcing I will say that we are competing in 
a global economy and there will be all kinds of programmers everywhere around 
the world: excellent, mediocre and those who probably should not be 
programming. The key is to remain up to speed on new and upcoming 
technologies and being competitive.

cheers,
-- 
Nimret Sandhu
http://www.nimret.com
http://www.nimsoft.biz