[PJUG Javamail] Is software engineering in the US dead?
Joe Hoffman
joe at intelopment.com
Tue Sep 29 11:24:55 EDT 2009
Even with the typos, these are really good points.
I also have seen the corporate mandate directive (reduce R&D budget by
20%) be implemented in ways that accomplish the goal, but cost the
business even more. Brooks's law and Peopleware are great references
for these points.
As for career moves, pursuing a masters in software engineering, where
these concepts are (hopefully) really explored and hopefully enables
the graduating student to argue and debate these points is a great
move. Then move up in the ranks of your organization and help senior
management explore the total cost of these decisions and really
calculate the true ROI. A few graphs don't hurt.
The goal isn't to save jobs or be protectionist about it. The unions
already showed us this isn't helpful in the long run. The goal is to
become part of the business decision cycle and teach not just your
fellow coder about efficient software development, but teach the
business people as well. I think they'd make the right decision if
they had all the facts. Help them collect the facts and be
equipped to invest in the business, not just accomplish a short term
(give me my bonus) goal.
joe
On Sep 28, 2009, at 10:37 PM, Chris Kessel/Lou Doherty wrote:
> Bleah, forgive the typos. Eyes are tired apparently. I even proof
> read it and still missed it badly.
>
> This is why I don't program at night :)
>
> From: javamail-bounces at pjug.org [mailto:javamail-bounces at pjug.org]
> On Behalf Of Chris Kessel/Lou Doherty
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:32 PM
> To: javamail at pjug.org
> Subject: Re: [PJUG Javamail] Is software engineering in the US dead?
>
> I've seen a steady trend of outsourcing. Sadly, I really don't
> expect that trend to end. Looks great on the books. "We have 1000
> programmers, but only 60% the cost of an equivalent organization!"
> The host of inefficiencies in coordinating off shore development is
> a silent cost that only those that have to work directly with it
> ever see. Management simply sees how "lean" they've made their R&D
> budget, but not the pain in the trenches. To see the negatives
> they'd have to measure pre-outsourcing productivity with post-
> outsourcing and compare a couple years of data to see what's really
> going on. That's just not going to happen.
>
> I can only speak fro person experience/observation, but it's mostly
> phantom savings. You largely get what you pay for. The truly
> talented off shore either join/form local companies and create a
> product (rather than work in contract houses) or they move to the US
> or other countries that can pay more. Consequently, the "cheap"
> outsourced engineers tend to not be the cream of the crop and the
> few that are tend to turn over fairly quickly as they get one of
> those higher paying jobs and you lose them. Peopleware's note about
> the best programmers being 10-100x more efficient than poor
> programmers really kicks in. Combine that with Brooks law of
> communication issues in larger teams and the benefits of outsourcing
> vanish rapidly. Better to have 1 top notch local guy at 100k a year
> than 5 average remote guys at 20k a year.
>
> Also, well I've seen in at least one case, the outsourced work bills
> by the hour, which means the engineers and QA have little incentive
> to automate anything as it reduces the number of hours they can
> bill. I've also seen a real lack of initiative to improve anything
> in the infrastructure (builds, scripts, cron jobs, you name it) as
> anything that speeds up the process reduces billable hours.
>
> Unfortunately, the management folks that get don't know (or don't
> care) about the lessons learned in things like Peopleware and
> Mythical Man-Month. In fairness, they're given incentive goals like
> "reduce R&D to 12% of total budget". When that's your mandate,
> outsourcing looks awfully good.
>
> From a job security viewpoint, I suppose you could try to get into
> government work related to defense or national security. Federal
> laws tend to prohibit outsourcing those jobs due to security concerns.
>
> From: javamail-bounces at pjug.org [mailto:javamail-bounces at pjug.org]
> On Behalf Of steve.j.hall at tektronix.com
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:36 AM
> To: javamail at pjug.org
> Subject: [PJUG Javamail] Is software engineering in the US dead?
>
> Is software engineering in the United States dead?
>
> I am currently working in Java and Java EE creating and maintaining
> applications that support global manufacturing and service. I have
> been with this company approaching 4 years. I have recently been
> notified that the manufacturing facility in which I work is being
> moved to China. Accordingly, my current job will end sometime in
> 2010. This is the second company in a row that has notified me that
> my services will no longer be necessary as they are moving this job
> function to over seas providers.
>
> I have contributed significantly to some great projects during my
> career. However, looking back over the 11 years I have been
> involved in software it seems to me my career has been anything but
> upwardly mobile. In fact, looking back it is evident that four
> organizations in the past ten years have been filling a role, while
> planning on consolidating to another region either within or outside
> the United States. Naturally career growth and upward mobility in
> such an organization is non existent.
>
> To provide a more complete picture, below is a summary of my
> background:
> B.S. in Computer Science
> Sun Certified Java Programmer
> 11 years in software development, 8 years focused on Java and Java
> EE. I work in all layers from the database to the user interface,
> full SDLC
> Lots of other skills: team lead, team building, interviewing,
> management, project management, and the like.
>
> I have seen the resumes of the candidates we are hiring in China;
> the resumes are generally peppered with the names of American
> corporations going back at least 5 or 6 years. I have had
> discussions with former colleagues who have shared their experience
> when their employer has outsourced to India. In short, there is
> strong evidence of a shrinking industry here in the United States.
> None of this makes me mad, as I don’t believe that I am somehow more
> entitled to a job than someone in India or China is. However, it
> sure would be a lot easier to navigate the global economy if there
> was some type of road map.
>
> I am interested in PJUG member’s opinions on whether software
> engineering as a career direction in the US is still viable, or
> whether this is a dying industry as software engineers cannot
> compete in a global economy?
>
> I am also interested in opinions of where I should focus my efforts
> if I do stay in software engineering: Additional certifications in
> the Java EE platform; learn Spring and Hibernate, EJB3, something
> else?
>
> Will a Masters Degree in software engineering be necessary to be
> viably employed in this industry in the United States? Would an MBA
> be a better idea? Should I give up and become a homeless bag man?
>
> Please be candid, you will not hurt my feelings.
>
> As a service to PJUG members, I will consolidate responses and post
> back to the group unless the response specifically requests that I
> not do so.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Steve Hall
> stevejhall at verizon.net
>
>
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