[PJUG Javamail] Is software engineering in the US dead?

Mon Sep 28 14:57:28 EDT 2009

I'll just make two quick comments:

1) I was talking to some CS profs at U of O a few months ago. They  
said that CS enrollment plummeted in 2001 after the .com crash and  
have only slowly been recovering. This means there is a lack of new  
engineers coming into the market.

2) Non-programming skills will make you a more valuable programmer,  
especially communication skills.  To increase your value I recommend  
some of the following:

* become an expert in a particular piece of software, preferably open  
source. This means not only knowing how to use it, but also answering  
questions on the list, filing bugs, fixing bugs, and volunteering to  
help with planning and documentation (trust me, OS projects *always*  
need people to help with these).

* blog on topics you are an expert in. write articles on it. make a  
book proposal.

* attend any conference near by. speak at conferences on something you  
are an expert in. some will even pay you!

In short think of this in terms of economics. Being a 'generic  
programmer' is a commodity. You need to become an expert in something  
that will raise your marginal value. This makes your more valuable to  
a potential employer / customer because your value is more concrete  
(they can see what else you've done), and you are not a commodity  
because you are an expert in something specific.

- J

On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Dean Pierce wrote:

> As time goes on, the demand for programmers is only going up.  The  
> days of sitting back and writing a kloc every week without doing any  
> actual thinking and getting paid 120k per year is pretty much gone  
> though.  Those sorts of hight paying jobs are now only given to  
> specialists with expertise in the set of fields required for the  
> position.  This usually means being a commiter on one or more of the  
> open source projects that the company is building off of for their  
> particular solution.
>
> With a masters degree, you might be able to demand maybe 10% more  
> compensation for the work you do, but it will not likely make you  
> more qualified to do any particular job.  However, getting a masters  
> degree will allow you to experience cutting edge research, and can  
> give you a good in for working on some up and coming open source  
> projects, which will look great for those specialist positions I was  
> talking about earlier.  It also gives you a few years for speaking/ 
> networking at conferences etc.
>
> If you hate computers by now, your best option might be to get that  
> MBA  :-D  The pay is usually better, but with the massive influx of  
> communication and collaboration technologies, holding meetings to  
> schedule meetings etc is becoming far less viable.  There is also  
> the threat of developing pointy hair syndrome.
>
> Keep in mind that these countries are getting all this extra work  
> because of a significant economic scew.  As more money flows out of  
> the US and into other countries, the economies will become more  
> balanced, and if a coder over there feels like the American  
> companies aren't paying them enough, they will start their own  
> company, and will likely be able to pay their employees  
> significantly more than American companies could.
>
>    - DEAN
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:36 AM, <steve.j.hall at tektronix.com> wrote:
> Is software engineering in the United States dead?
>
> I am currently working in Java and Java EE creating and maintaining  
> applications that support global manufacturing and service.  I have  
> been with this company approaching 4 years.  I have recently been  
> notified that the manufacturing facility in which I work is being  
> moved to China.  Accordingly, my current job will end sometime in  
> 2010.  This is the second company in a row that has notified me that  
> my services will no longer be necessary as they are moving this job  
> function to over seas providers.
>
> I have contributed significantly to some great projects during my  
> career.  However, looking back over the 11 years I have been  
> involved in software it seems to me my career has been anything but  
> upwardly mobile.  In fact, looking back it is evident that four  
> organizations in the past ten years have been filling a role, while  
> planning on consolidating to another region either within or outside  
> the United States.  Naturally career growth and upward mobility in  
> such an organization is non existent.
>
> To provide a more complete picture, below is a summary of my  
> background:
> B.S. in Computer Science
> Sun Certified Java Programmer
> 11 years in software development, 8 years focused on Java and Java  
> EE.  I work in all layers from the database to the user interface,  
> full SDLC
> Lots of other skills: team lead, team building, interviewing,  
> management, project management, and the like.
>
> I have seen the resumes of the candidates we are hiring in China;  
> the resumes are generally peppered with the names of American  
> corporations going back at least 5 or 6 years.  I have had  
> discussions with former colleagues who have shared their experience  
> when their employer has outsourced to India.  In short, there is  
> strong evidence of a shrinking industry here in the United States.   
> None of this makes me mad, as I don’t believe that I am somehow more  
> entitled to a job than someone in India or China is.  However, it  
> sure would be a lot easier to navigate the global economy if there  
> was some type of road map.
>
> I am interested in PJUG member’s opinions on whether software  
> engineering as a career direction in the US is still viable, or  
> whether this is a dying industry as software engineers cannot  
> compete in a global economy?
>
> I am also interested in opinions of where I should focus my efforts  
> if I do stay in software engineering: Additional certifications in  
> the Java EE platform; learn Spring and Hibernate, EJB3, something  
> else?
>
> Will a Masters Degree in software engineering be necessary to be  
> viably employed in this industry in the United States?  Would an MBA  
> be a better idea?  Should I give up and become a homeless bag man?
>
> Please be candid, you will not hurt my feelings.
>
> As a service to PJUG members, I will consolidate responses and post  
> back to the group unless the response specifically requests that I  
> not do so.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Steve Hall
> stevejhall at verizon.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web Site - http://www.pjug.org/
> Javamail mailing list
> Javamail at pjug.org
> http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web Site - http://www.pjug.org/
> Javamail mailing list
> Javamail at pjug.org
> http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.pjug.org/pipermail/javamail/attachments/20090928/7d9b2ce9/attachment.html 