[PJUG Javamail] Spring versus Seam

Mon Oct 19 18:31:14 EDT 2009

Hi Ken,

What would be really great if I could plugin the new jsf-api and jsf-ri jars
and el jars for 2.0 into any J2EE app server and be able to use them
assuming full backward compatibility to older versions like JSF1.1 ?

Is this a pipe-dream with OSGI etc ?

TIA,
Vijay

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Ken Paulsen <Ken.Paulsen at sun.com> wrote:

>
> In case anyone is interested in the latest and greatest in JSF... JSF 2.0's
> first production-ready implementation was released today:
>
>     http://twitter.com/edburns/status/4997863308
>
> Ken
>
> Ken Paulsen wrote:
>
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> If you have the choice, you should consider JSF 2.0.  The EG tried to take
> the best concepts from frameworks like Seam and Facelets and make them
> standard features.  Component creation is MUCH easier, Ajax support is now
> standardized and very easy to use, resource handling is finally addressed.
> You may not have a need for Seam or Spring if you use it (although depending
> on the features you're trying to use, you may still want them).
>
> As Vijay suggested, use Facelets -- JSP's are being discouraged in JSF
> 2.0+, some new features will only work w/ the Facelets syntax.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Ken Paulsen
>
>
> Vijay Balakrishnan wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>  That is good to know but wanted to correct 1 comment. Seam works equally
> well if not better with NetBeans. If you work with Hibernate as your O/R
> mapping layer or JPA, Seam will serve you really well. If someone loves
> Spring, you can integrate Seam with Spring too.
>
>  Having worked with JSF and all its bugs in the various implementations,
> Seam is definitely a game changer and way more stable than something like
> Spring Roo. I do love Spring for its D.I. Spring Roo though I will stay away
> from for at least 1 more year. The best part about Seam is being able to use
> Facelets for the UI layer instead of JSPs.
> The recommendation would vary based on what Bruce's needs were but he is
> already using RichFaces for his web app and moving to Seam should be
> easier.If he were using Spring MVC for his current web app, my
> recommendation would be much different.
>
>
>  Vijay
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Chris Kessel/Lou Doherty <
> chriskessel at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>  We used it about 9 months ago on a project where I worked and Seam was
>> nice in concept, but just chocked full of bugs. All sorts of problems with
>> iterators on persistent items and such, especially as related to Seam GUI
>> components. We spent a lot of time working around bugs and/or trying to
>> figure out if if something was us or the Seam library with the probelm. We
>> even had a couple, um, Red Hat(?, whoever bought JBoss) consultants helping
>> us work around the issues and it was still painful. Seam was pretty heavily
>> tied to Eclipse only too, so if you're not an Eclipse-only shop, you might
>> have cross IDE issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> 9 months ago though is a lifetime in the maturity of an early product, so
>> take my comments with a grain of salt for how it might be today. Personally,
>> I like Spring and would probably use that and it's JPA integration with some
>> other GUI entirely (like GWT, Tapestry, etc).
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* javamail-bounces at pjug.org [mailto:javamail-bounces at pjug.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Vijay Balakrishnan
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:23 PM
>> *To:* Bruce Kaufman
>> *Cc:* javamail at pjug.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [PJUG Javamail] Spring versus Seam
>>
>>
>>
>> I have looked at Seam and it is definitely a very elegant, tightly
>> integrated solution for a stateful web app trying to access a hibernate or
>> JPA based app on JDK5. Seam also takes care of the back button issue like
>> Spring MVC. It also integrates ICEFaces and RichFaces in and also has jBPM
>> support with Drools(I think). Seam takes care of the LazyInitialization
>> issue that happens commonly with Spring apps talking to Hibernate(source of
>> a long email chain on PJUG recently). That is 1 of the main reason Gavin
>> King, the Hibernate guy went for the jugular in his dispute with Spring
>> which is a stateless framework. Seam also plays well with Spring framework
>> if you insist on it.Spring is trying to get back at Seam with Spring Roo but
>> it is still in beta and a newly started project.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seam fixes a lot of the issues with JSF1.2 and handles all the scenarios
>> you have mentioned below.
>>
>> "Seam In Action" is a great starter book.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have a backend database schema you can point to, seam-gen Ant task
>> will generate all the CRUD code all the way to a working Web UI using JSF
>> and Facelets(it uses HibernateTools for the reverse engineering and
>> Hibernate templates to generate the UI/View layer).
>>
>>
>>
>> Vijay
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Bruce Kaufman <bjan11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am looking to refactoring my web application (currently RichFaces) to
>> use either Spring or Seam. I am looking for a more elegant solution for
>> "stateful" situations and the "browser back" key.
>>
>> Has anyone recently evaluated them and have any comments?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bruce Kaufman
>> www.WoodsWithNoBorders.com
>>
>>
>>
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