[PJUG Javamail] Advice on Java certification

[Joe Hoffman]

Hey Chris,

I've used Websphere 2.1.3.3.2.4.    Wow, I didn't know anyone else was 
out there with that version.  Very cool.

Perhaps we can setup a users group and share ideas and such and....

oh wait,  My version is 2.1.3.3.2.3,,,  never mind...

joe

Chris Kessel/Lou Doherty wrote:
> I got certified back in the 1.1 days.  It's certainly not a waste of time,
> but it's probably not the most useful way to either learn Java or pad your
> resume.
>
> Perhaps I'm jaded, but a great many employers seem to be asking checkbox
> questions, more so than they did 10, or even 5, years ago.
>
> - Have you used Websphere 2.1.3.3.2.4, and no, the previous point release
> doesn't qualify. I'm serious, I've seen it stated specifically in the job
> details that 2.X was ok, but 2.X-1 wasn't.
> - Have you used Struts?  Well, no, but I've used Webworks, which is similar
> and I've done web front ends for about 4 years, so give me 2 weeks and a
> book on Struts and I'll be set. Nope...you must know Struts (and maybe a
> specific Struts version).
> - Do you use Eclipse/IntelliJ/JDeveloper/whatever? Seriously...I've been
> filtered out of the "to interview" pile because I used the wrong IDE...
>
> To be fair, most of these checkbox qualifications happen through recruiters,
> who often get them checklist from a corporate HR person, who might have
> asked the hiring manager for a list of tools they use. If you're getting in
> directly through a hiring manager, you probably won't face the checkbox
> filters as much.
>
> So, browse the job offerings and get familiar with the specific tools people
> want, go download them and make sample applications.  Something you can talk
> about or show.  Maybe join an open source project working with that tool. 
>
> That will help your marketability.  I know my "growth" (and job
> satisfaction) over the years usually stems from more core books.  Use case
> books, design patterns, concurrency, etc.  It's always a fine balancing act
> between keeping up with the buzzwords vs. keeping your core skill set in
> shape.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javamail-bounces at pjug.org [mailto:javamail-bounces at pjug.org] On Behalf
> Of Joe Hoffman
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:09 PM
> Cc: javamail at pjug.org
> Subject: Re: [PJUG Javamail] Advice on Java certification
>
> Great comments Richard. I totally agree.
>
> For myself, getting certified was interesting and educational.  I'm glad I
> invested the time and I learned about parts of the technology (Swing) that I
> otherwise never have dealt with, as I work only on server side/web stuff.
>
> My certification has never been relevant to a job discussion.  I've never
> been asked "are you certified".  However I have been asked many 
> times about what I've done, what I've built,  how I handed XYZ., etc.   
> While some of this experience might come from a certification program,
> employers and peers are looking for real live experience.  I would not rely
> on a certification to accomplish these goals.  It's just not enough.
>
> good luck
>
> joe
>
> Richard wrote:
>   
>> Cole Harper aks:
>> "  For someone without a CS degree, is the Java Certification " route 
>> a way to get a job as a Java developer?
>>
>> The best route I've seen--with or without degree--is to have a body of 
>> coding experience.  For some reason (go figure) managers like to see a 
>> track record a whole lot more than they like to see a degree (for the 
>> most part.)
>>
>> To get the experience:
>>
>>  - do the whole Sun tutorial
>>  - do all the exercises in "Thinking in Java"
>>  - write a couple of interesting programs or web sites for yourself
>>  - get involved in one or two open source projects and genuinely 
>> contribute
>>  - come to many PJUG meetings and get to know us
>>  - find a specific area of Java that you enjoy, and then repeat all 
>> these, in that area.
>>
>> The good news for you is that you're already employed.  That gives you 
>> the staying power to accomplish this goal.  We have lots of bright and 
>> taleneted people here in PJUG who'll likely be more than willing to 
>> help you along the way.
>>   
>>     
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web Site - http://www.pjug.org/
> Javamail mailing list
> Javamail at pjug.org
> http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail_pjug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web Site - http://www.pjug.org/
> Javamail mailing list
> Javamail at pjug.org
> http://www.pjug.org/mailman/listinfo/javamail_pjug.org
>
>
>
>
>